Comments on: Maybe the ELCA should become Lutheran http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/ youth ministry, reimagined Sun, 18 Mar 2012 06:12:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: PastJackW http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/#comment-18206 PastJackW Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:20:31 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/#comment-18206 A person who is simply 'called' by a Lutheran congregation to preach, teach, and administer the Sacraments without proper training (languages, Bible, Lutheran Confessions, theology, pastoral care)has no qualifications for Word and Sacrament ministry. Note that at the time of the Reformation, town councils or princes wishing to implement the Lutheran reform would contact Wittenberg and ask Luther if he could send them an evangelical pastor. The town council would then have a discussion with the candidate and then 'call' him to serve. There has always been proper theological training for Lutheran clergy as a requirement for Word and Sacrament ministry. Remember what the Augsburg Confession says: "No one shall preach, or teach, or administer the Sacraments publicaly without a a regular call." Just picking a congregation member to "do the preaching and Sacraments" is not a regular call. Such idealism with respect to the ministry is dangerous. The problem is not that ELCA clergy are trained,called by a congregation, and then ordained by a bishop (and thereafter, called and installed subsequent calls), the real problem is a) the training itself (the ELCA has become just another liberal prot denomination!) and the fact that bishops block candidates who aren't 100% supportive of their personal agendas which are most often liberal, feminist, pro-gay, post-modern, pro-inclusive language, revisionist agendas. There is no confessional loyalty in the ELCA anymore. A person who is simply ‘called’ by a Lutheran congregation to preach, teach, and administer the Sacraments without proper training (languages, Bible, Lutheran Confessions, theology, pastoral care)has no qualifications for Word and Sacrament ministry. Note that at the time of the Reformation, town councils or princes wishing to implement the Lutheran reform would contact Wittenberg and ask Luther if he could send them an evangelical pastor. The town council would then have a discussion with the candidate and then ‘call’ him to serve. There has always been proper theological training for Lutheran clergy as a requirement for Word and Sacrament ministry. Remember what the Augsburg Confession says: “No one shall preach, or teach, or administer the Sacraments publicaly without a a regular call.” Just picking a congregation member to “do the preaching and Sacraments” is not a regular call. Such idealism with respect to the ministry is dangerous. The problem is not that ELCA clergy are trained,called by a congregation, and then ordained by a bishop (and thereafter, called and installed subsequent calls), the real problem is a) the training itself (the ELCA has become just another liberal prot denomination!) and the fact that bishops block candidates who aren’t 100% supportive of their personal agendas which are most often liberal, feminist, pro-gay, post-modern, pro-inclusive language, revisionist agendas. There is no confessional loyalty in the ELCA anymore.

]]> By: Emily http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/#comment-10465 Emily Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:46:17 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/#comment-10465 Hey, If I can find his research for you, Dr. James Kittelson was all over this stuff when he was lecturing and researching. He was probably the number one Luther scholar of his generation. Sadly, he is no longer with us. He made a lot of people mad, but that was because he was right on many topics concerning Luther and Lutherans, pastoral office, etc. It was also interesting listening to him talk. I think some of our Christian friends in circles that allow open preaching and presiding would be grinning. Hey,

If I can find his research for you, Dr. James Kittelson was all over this stuff when he was lecturing and researching. He was probably the number one Luther scholar of his generation. Sadly, he is no longer with us. He made a lot of people mad, but that was because he was right on many topics concerning Luther and Lutherans, pastoral office, etc. It was also interesting listening to him talk.

I think some of our Christian friends in circles that allow open preaching and presiding would be grinning.

]]> By: Matt http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/#comment-10464 Matt Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:39:30 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/#comment-10464 Oh the irony. Oh the irony.

]]> By: Jerry Watts http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/#comment-10463 Jerry Watts Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:25:08 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/#comment-10463 Oh that Lutheran churches were Lutheran. Radical. Great post. Oh that Lutheran churches were Lutheran. Radical. Great post.

]]> By: jeremy zach http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/#comment-10462 jeremy zach Sat, 19 Dec 2009 17:29:46 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/#comment-10462 Matt- This guy is a screw ball. I tried to engage him and it was pointless. Matt-
This guy is a screw ball. I tried to engage him and it was pointless.

]]> By: Matt http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/#comment-10461 Matt Thu, 03 Dec 2009 22:40:20 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/#comment-10461 I'm not exactly sure how to respond to this. I’m not exactly sure how to respond to this.

]]> By: Seth Browback http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/#comment-10460 Seth Browback Thu, 03 Dec 2009 22:22:25 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/#comment-10460 Greetings from REYouthPastor. Dude this post is wicked sick. But I was thinking...why do you have YOUR NAME for your website? That is weird. Maybe you should make it like, MattCleaverlovesJESUS.com or something? Anyways bro, just checkin in!! Greetings from REYouthPastor.

Dude this post is wicked sick. But I was thinking…why do you have YOUR NAME for your website? That is weird. Maybe you should make it like, MattCleaverlovesJESUS.com or something? Anyways bro, just checkin in!!

]]> By: dave wainscott http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/#comment-10459 dave wainscott Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:37:26 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2009/10/20/maybe-the-elca-should-become-lutheran/#comment-10459 Sounnd perfect. As a former United Methodist, i remember thinking a version of the same thing. But also feeling zero percent chance of it ever happening. Now i fear the chances are even less. Hope not in your case.. Blessings Sounnd perfect.

As a former United Methodist,
i remember thinking a version of the same thing.

But also feeling zero percent chance of it ever happening.

Now i fear the chances are even less.

Hope not in your case..

Blessings

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