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	<title>Comments on: Why We&#8217;re Not Going to the ELCA Youth Gathering</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/</link>
	<description>theology. youth ministry. life. join the conversation.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:11:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: E</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-34753</link>
		<dc:creator>E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-34753</guid>
		<description>I am very much in favor of these events. They give teens a chance to meet other people their own age from across the country that share the same beliefs they do. A lot of these teens at home, are outcasted for their religious views in this Ungodly world. Its an awesome experience for them to have this fellowship with others. NOT TO MENTION...I was in high school during the 2001 New Orleans trip. I am from California and met a girl from Michigan who turned out to be the love of my life. We stayed in contact all throughout the remainder of high school and now are HAPPILY MARRIED!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am very much in favor of these events. They give teens a chance to meet other people their own age from across the country that share the same beliefs they do. A lot of these teens at home, are outcasted for their religious views in this Ungodly world. Its an awesome experience for them to have this fellowship with others. NOT TO MENTION&#8230;I was in high school during the 2001 New Orleans trip. I am from California and met a girl from Michigan who turned out to be the love of my life. We stayed in contact all throughout the remainder of high school and now are HAPPILY MARRIED!</p>
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		<title>By: Taylor</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-32148</link>
		<dc:creator>Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 00:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-32148</guid>
		<description>i just wanted to say that, it is worth every penny. That are trying to get us to follow god in a way that we like. They are trying to make us feel like just cuz we are into that kinda rock music that it isn&#039;t terrible that god wont be disturbed by that. Also are youth group decided together we wanted to go to learn and help out others. we could have stayed home and sat on our butts but we chose to go and help learn and to spread the word. I come from a small town 2,000 people around, and our group had more than the city next to us that has 67,000 we met up with that group from around us, they had about 15 teens. Our tiny town came with 30 kids ready to learn about god.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i just wanted to say that, it is worth every penny. That are trying to get us to follow god in a way that we like. They are trying to make us feel like just cuz we are into that kinda rock music that it isn&#8217;t terrible that god wont be disturbed by that. Also are youth group decided together we wanted to go to learn and help out others. we could have stayed home and sat on our butts but we chose to go and help learn and to spread the word. I come from a small town 2,000 people around, and our group had more than the city next to us that has 67,000 we met up with that group from around us, they had about 15 teens. Our tiny town came with 30 kids ready to learn about god.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-24966</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-24966</guid>
		<description>Matt,

I&#039;ve just returned from the National Gathering in NOLA and therefore a little behind on reading blogs.  Generally your comments are right on regarding mega gatherings, I would just point out a few things that I experienced at the ELCA Gathering that proved to be different than your statements.
-The gathering in NOLA and San Antonio were both very contextual to their location.  In San Antonio the Mexican culture and the issue of immigration were a large part of the program.  In New Orleans justice issues, both related to Katrina not, permeated every part of the Gathering. 
-Big name speakers were not the focus of the mass gatherings.  In fact, the nationally known speakers seemed to have just as much time on stage as non-professional speakers telling their own stories of justice (our kids related much more to the second group). 
-Every participant at the gathering did one day of service.  For many, this is a taste of what they can do and may change how they can see their world once they return home.  The same cannot be said for listening to a speaker or doing wacky song motions.
-The gathering was expensive, good point.  I didn&#039;t get the sense that anyone was making money except the hotels and restaurants, but I could be wrong.
-The ELCA gathering specifically is an extension of communities that exist all over the country.  Our kids hung out with kids they had met at other camps, etc.  Our adults met old friends for coffee.  A new community was fostered and developed over the week.  The young Lutherans spread the joy of Christ into every shop, restaurant, and hotel in NOLA.  Community was fostered, I&#039;m not sure if that happens as every large event.  
-You&#039;re writing from the perspective of an experienced, educated youth minister.  Others value the &quot;outsourcing&quot; of the program (not the relationships) here much more than you and I, and others feel they cannot offer a similarly transformational week on their own (volunteers, solo pastors, etc).  
-The ELCA gathering made significant changes this year to better suite their context.  The program was not identical. 
-I did not feel that any of the speakers were emotionally manipulative. Sure, they were having fun and getting the kids to sing and dance. Our kids ate up the energy.

Good thoughts, just wanted to point out how my week was different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve just returned from the National Gathering in NOLA and therefore a little behind on reading blogs.  Generally your comments are right on regarding mega gatherings, I would just point out a few things that I experienced at the ELCA Gathering that proved to be different than your statements.<br />
-The gathering in NOLA and San Antonio were both very contextual to their location.  In San Antonio the Mexican culture and the issue of immigration were a large part of the program.  In New Orleans justice issues, both related to Katrina not, permeated every part of the Gathering.<br />
-Big name speakers were not the focus of the mass gatherings.  In fact, the nationally known speakers seemed to have just as much time on stage as non-professional speakers telling their own stories of justice (our kids related much more to the second group).<br />
-Every participant at the gathering did one day of service.  For many, this is a taste of what they can do and may change how they can see their world once they return home.  The same cannot be said for listening to a speaker or doing wacky song motions.<br />
-The gathering was expensive, good point.  I didn&#8217;t get the sense that anyone was making money except the hotels and restaurants, but I could be wrong.<br />
-The ELCA gathering specifically is an extension of communities that exist all over the country.  Our kids hung out with kids they had met at other camps, etc.  Our adults met old friends for coffee.  A new community was fostered and developed over the week.  The young Lutherans spread the joy of Christ into every shop, restaurant, and hotel in NOLA.  Community was fostered, I&#8217;m not sure if that happens as every large event.<br />
-You&#8217;re writing from the perspective of an experienced, educated youth minister.  Others value the &#8220;outsourcing&#8221; of the program (not the relationships) here much more than you and I, and others feel they cannot offer a similarly transformational week on their own (volunteers, solo pastors, etc).<br />
-The ELCA gathering made significant changes this year to better suite their context.  The program was not identical.<br />
-I did not feel that any of the speakers were emotionally manipulative. Sure, they were having fun and getting the kids to sing and dance. Our kids ate up the energy.</p>
<p>Good thoughts, just wanted to point out how my week was different.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-24873</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-24873</guid>
		<description>I went to the 2009 ELCA Youth Gathering in New Orleans this year. We just returned home today. It was AMAZING. The speakers, music, bishop, community projects, learning centers, and interaction centers were awesome! It was the most fun i&#039;ve had in a long time and I learned so much. I met so many people from all different states and became closer to Christ. New Orleans is a city I will never forget. It was so inspiring seeing so many people there be called by God to help out the victims of Hurricane Katrina. I cannot begin to believe that someone would not want to be a part of something this wonderful. It was a terrific experience and something I will never forget. 

AMEN</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went to the 2009 ELCA Youth Gathering in New Orleans this year. We just returned home today. It was AMAZING. The speakers, music, bishop, community projects, learning centers, and interaction centers were awesome! It was the most fun i&#8217;ve had in a long time and I learned so much. I met so many people from all different states and became closer to Christ. New Orleans is a city I will never forget. It was so inspiring seeing so many people there be called by God to help out the victims of Hurricane Katrina. I cannot begin to believe that someone would not want to be a part of something this wonderful. It was a terrific experience and something I will never forget. </p>
<p>AMEN</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Duckworth</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-24691</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Duckworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 04:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-24691</guid>
		<description>Wow Matt!  You said things that I&#039;ve felt for years but didn&#039;t know how to say it.  Agreed 100%</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow Matt!  You said things that I&#8217;ve felt for years but didn&#8217;t know how to say it.  Agreed 100%</p>
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		<title>By: Mackenzie</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-24568</link>
		<dc:creator>Mackenzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-24568</guid>
		<description>Another angle that I have looked at Gathering from someone who served small town and country churches in Iowa and Texas is the class issues that inevitably arise from a big ticket Gathering.  It is great for kids in small towns to see a larger Church.  It was especially important for my kids in Texas who were isolated as mainline Christians.  Fortunately, San Antonio was in our backyard.

The problem arose in these congregations that we could not afford to spend $1000 a kid on Gathering, and most of our families couldn&#039;t find that cash either.  My question becomes, &quot;Who gets left out?&quot; due to socio-economic pressures.  Especially at this time of recession.  At the same time, the last two Gatherings have emphasized Earthkeeping practices.  What is sustainable about the amount of resources required to make Gathering happen? (travel resources, paper products, energy for the buildings, etc.)

NOLA is a good place for service as so much is needed.  However, one day of service may not be as effective as a week.  I also don&#039;t know much about how they are contextualizing the service.  It is being billed as service-learning.  However, service-learning practice is based on mutuality and partnership with one&#039;s community - hence the community partners as teachers.  I&#039;m not sure even NOLA can provide that kind of partnership on a one-day basis.

There has to be a better, more sustainable solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another angle that I have looked at Gathering from someone who served small town and country churches in Iowa and Texas is the class issues that inevitably arise from a big ticket Gathering.  It is great for kids in small towns to see a larger Church.  It was especially important for my kids in Texas who were isolated as mainline Christians.  Fortunately, San Antonio was in our backyard.</p>
<p>The problem arose in these congregations that we could not afford to spend $1000 a kid on Gathering, and most of our families couldn&#8217;t find that cash either.  My question becomes, &#8220;Who gets left out?&#8221; due to socio-economic pressures.  Especially at this time of recession.  At the same time, the last two Gatherings have emphasized Earthkeeping practices.  What is sustainable about the amount of resources required to make Gathering happen? (travel resources, paper products, energy for the buildings, etc.)</p>
<p>NOLA is a good place for service as so much is needed.  However, one day of service may not be as effective as a week.  I also don&#8217;t know much about how they are contextualizing the service.  It is being billed as service-learning.  However, service-learning practice is based on mutuality and partnership with one&#8217;s community &#8211; hence the community partners as teachers.  I&#8217;m not sure even NOLA can provide that kind of partnership on a one-day basis.</p>
<p>There has to be a better, more sustainable solution.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-24549</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-24549</guid>
		<description>Alaina, I&#039;m totally on board with you that there are good people who do hard work for these sorts of events. I would hate to put people out of a job, but the fact is that change is always painful. You can&#039;t have change while keeping things that same. I&#039;ve weighed the options, and for now this is where I land in the land of gray.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alaina, I&#8217;m totally on board with you that there are good people who do hard work for these sorts of events. I would hate to put people out of a job, but the fact is that change is always painful. You can&#8217;t have change while keeping things that same. I&#8217;ve weighed the options, and for now this is where I land in the land of gray.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-24547</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-24547</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;&quot;Yeah, what matt said; good post.&quot;&lt;/em&gt; I&#039;ll take whatever I can get!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;Yeah, what matt said; good post.&#8221;</em> I&#8217;ll take whatever I can get!</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-24546</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-24546</guid>
		<description>Jeff, as I said to Joelle, I think the Youth Gathering is a little bit better about not making Christian celebrities out of people than other events, and for that I am grateful. I&#039;m not against people who are skilled and talented, I am against a system that turns them into celebrities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, as I said to Joelle, I think the Youth Gathering is a little bit better about not making Christian celebrities out of people than other events, and for that I am grateful. I&#8217;m not against people who are skilled and talented, I am against a system that turns them into celebrities.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-24545</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2009/07/15/why-were-not-going-to-the-elca-youth-gathering/#comment-24545</guid>
		<description>Joelle, thanks for your thoughts. I&#039;m not saying there aren&#039;t upsides to big events like this. Yes, they might get at a few angles that other sorts of events don&#039;t, but in my estimation they&#039;re not worth it in the long run. I&#039;ve done events like this but for the past three years have not participated in large events. So far, I don&#039;t think we&#039;re missing out on much. 

Perhaps the fact that the Gathering happens only every three years dulls the normative affect that I talked about, which is good. As I said, when I was a teen, we had a yearly event that really did become the cornerstone of our faith life, and I&#039;m not sure how helpful that was. I have seen the impact of such events, and I&#039;m not so sure I like it.

I&#039;m all for people who are talented speakers and have a level of wisdom unmatched my most. My problem is with making these people into celebrities. This is something that, from what little I can tell, the ELCA Youth Gathering has less of a problem with than our evangelical counterparts.

Just so you know, we&#039;re a pretty tiny church with a small youth group. We don&#039;t have big budgets or do anything fancy. And I don&#039;t think we need to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joelle, thanks for your thoughts. I&#8217;m not saying there aren&#8217;t upsides to big events like this. Yes, they might get at a few angles that other sorts of events don&#8217;t, but in my estimation they&#8217;re not worth it in the long run. I&#8217;ve done events like this but for the past three years have not participated in large events. So far, I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re missing out on much. </p>
<p>Perhaps the fact that the Gathering happens only every three years dulls the normative affect that I talked about, which is good. As I said, when I was a teen, we had a yearly event that really did become the cornerstone of our faith life, and I&#8217;m not sure how helpful that was. I have seen the impact of such events, and I&#8217;m not so sure I like it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for people who are talented speakers and have a level of wisdom unmatched my most. My problem is with making these people into celebrities. This is something that, from what little I can tell, the ELCA Youth Gathering has less of a problem with than our evangelical counterparts.</p>
<p>Just so you know, we&#8217;re a pretty tiny church with a small youth group. We don&#8217;t have big budgets or do anything fancy. And I don&#8217;t think we need to.</p>
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