Comments on: The Positive Side of the One-Eared Mickey Mouse http://mattcleaver.com/2009/05/22/the-positive-side-of-the-one-eared-mickey-mouse/ youth ministry, reimagined Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:26:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Bible Quizzing http://mattcleaver.com/2009/05/22/the-positive-side-of-the-one-eared-mickey-mouse/#comment-9348 Bible Quizzing Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:14:44 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2009/05/22/the-positive-side-of-the-one-eared-mickey-mouse/#comment-9348 I don't think we should expect the youth of the church to ALWAYS move the congregation-at-large to change. Sometimes it's got to be the other way around. Parents are called to lead and guide their kids into godliness and a Christlike lifestyle. But we can and do learn from each other. I know that in our church, which has a large and active Bible quizzing group among the teens (about 40 teens active in quizzing in a congregation of 300-400), that we now are starting to see more adults memorizing the scripture than we used to. They do it because they are inspired by the example and dedication of the teen quizzers. And they do it in an effort to lead by their own example. I don’t think we should expect the youth of the church to ALWAYS move the congregation-at-large to change.

Sometimes it’s got to be the other way around. Parents are called to lead and guide their kids into godliness and a Christlike lifestyle.

But we can and do learn from each other.

I know that in our church, which has a large and active Bible quizzing group among the teens (about 40 teens active in quizzing in a congregation of 300-400), that we now are starting to see more adults memorizing the scripture than we used to.

They do it because they are inspired by the example and dedication of the teen quizzers. And they do it in an effort to lead by their own example.

]]> By: gavin richardson http://mattcleaver.com/2009/05/22/the-positive-side-of-the-one-eared-mickey-mouse/#comment-9347 gavin richardson Sat, 23 May 2009 15:40:43 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2009/05/22/the-positive-side-of-the-one-eared-mickey-mouse/#comment-9347 matt, what you speak of is actually highlighted as one of the models on 'four views of youth ministry & the church.' i believe its referenced as the preparatory model where the youth group is prepped to start their own church. http://www.amazon.com/Four-Views-Youth-Ministry-Church/dp/0310234050 i'm okay with being an early adopter/innovator to do ministry as a youth ministry but i also use that ethos to move it into the church. the youth ministry, as well as children's & special events, are always given permission to try stuff out where the traditional sunday service might be that sacred cow. continual taking advantage of the permission eventually takes ahold of the full church. a subvert way of bringing change possibly, but still keeping with the body of the church. matt, what you speak of is actually highlighted as one of the models on ‘four views of youth ministry & the church.’ i believe its referenced as the preparatory model where the youth group is prepped to start their own church.
http://www.amazon.com/Four-Views-Youth-Ministry-Church/dp/0310234050

i’m okay with being an early adopter/innovator to do ministry as a youth ministry but i also use that ethos to move it into the church. the youth ministry, as well as children’s & special events, are always given permission to try stuff out where the traditional sunday service might be that sacred cow. continual taking advantage of the permission eventually takes ahold of the full church. a subvert way of bringing change possibly, but still keeping with the body of the church.

]]> By: Matt http://mattcleaver.com/2009/05/22/the-positive-side-of-the-one-eared-mickey-mouse/#comment-9346 Matt Sat, 23 May 2009 04:02:19 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2009/05/22/the-positive-side-of-the-one-eared-mickey-mouse/#comment-9346 Franklin, good thoughts from someone who has actually tried this. I haven't put this idea into practice very much, but it was just a possible conclusion I came to by drawing on some of the material I mentioned above. I'm not even sure I agree with the idea! Thanks for your insight. Franklin, good thoughts from someone who has actually tried this. I haven’t put this idea into practice very much, but it was just a possible conclusion I came to by drawing on some of the material I mentioned above. I’m not even sure I agree with the idea! Thanks for your insight.

]]> By: Franklin Wood http://mattcleaver.com/2009/05/22/the-positive-side-of-the-one-eared-mickey-mouse/#comment-9345 Franklin Wood Sat, 23 May 2009 03:45:56 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2009/05/22/the-positive-side-of-the-one-eared-mickey-mouse/#comment-9345 Here's a problem I've run into when trying to implement the change you spoke about... In my last church, I saw this same phenomenon and tried to use the youth group to bridge the existing gap between our church and the one across town. Ours was the more "conservative" of the two churches, while the other church enjoyed more freedom. Just about the time the kids were bonding (as were myself and the other youth min) I tried to suggest that our leadership get together. What ended up happening was that our pulpit minister and elders met with the other church's leadership and grilled them on why they did certain things. Unsatisfied with their answers, they turned on me and suggested that maybe it wasn't a good idea to "fellowship" with that other group. All of a sudden, that church-wide change that was being led by the youth group turned into "Oh, those kids are just young and idealistic. They're not thinking clearly..." Needless to say, I was gone from that church in a few more years. You're more likely to meet with success if you move a FAMILY MINISTRY (or some ministry with adults) into a direction you'd like to go. make sure parents are on board, too, or you'll never get anywhere. Here’s a problem I’ve run into when trying to implement the change you spoke about…
In my last church, I saw this same phenomenon and tried to use the youth group to bridge the existing gap between our church and the one across town. Ours was the more “conservative” of the two churches, while the other church enjoyed more freedom.
Just about the time the kids were bonding (as were myself and the other youth min) I tried to suggest that our leadership get together.
What ended up happening was that our pulpit minister and elders met with the other church’s leadership and grilled them on why they did certain things. Unsatisfied with their answers, they turned on me and suggested that maybe it wasn’t a good idea to “fellowship” with that other group.
All of a sudden, that church-wide change that was being led by the youth group turned into “Oh, those kids are just young and idealistic. They’re not thinking clearly…”
Needless to say, I was gone from that church in a few more years.

You’re more likely to meet with success if you move a FAMILY MINISTRY (or some ministry with adults) into a direction you’d like to go. make sure parents are on board, too, or you’ll never get anywhere.

]]> By: Matt http://mattcleaver.com/2009/05/22/the-positive-side-of-the-one-eared-mickey-mouse/#comment-9344 Matt Fri, 22 May 2009 17:36:15 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2009/05/22/the-positive-side-of-the-one-eared-mickey-mouse/#comment-9344 Tony, thanks for pointing out the not all youth pastors and ministries are on the innovative side of things. You're right, but I think that in general, youth ministries are often earlier adopters than the rest of the congregation, simply because they by definition have less history because of their age. Tony, thanks for pointing out the not all youth pastors and ministries are on the innovative side of things. You’re right, but I think that in general, youth ministries are often earlier adopters than the rest of the congregation, simply because they by definition have less history because of their age.

]]> By: tony sheng http://mattcleaver.com/2009/05/22/the-positive-side-of-the-one-eared-mickey-mouse/#comment-9343 tony sheng Fri, 22 May 2009 17:25:05 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2009/05/22/the-positive-side-of-the-one-eared-mickey-mouse/#comment-9343 like this post - that's some good thinking. i think we've all seen at least a few student ministries lead their churches in terms of innovation and creativity - i know it certainly seemed like ours did in the way of overseas missions and community impact. one caution i think we should consider is that not all youth pastors and youth groups are on the cutting edge of innovation - they are not all early adopters. same applies with adults - not all of them are late majority or laggards. so i think we have to careful to not assume that just because a person is a youth pastor that he or she is willing to be risky, creative or try new things. i've met more than my fair share of youth pastors that are only interested in the status quo. good post! like this post – that’s some good thinking. i think we’ve all seen at least a few student ministries lead their churches in terms of innovation and creativity – i know it certainly seemed like ours did in the way of overseas missions and community impact.

one caution i think we should consider is that not all youth pastors and youth groups are on the cutting edge of innovation – they are not all early adopters. same applies with adults – not all of them are late majority or laggards. so i think we have to careful to not assume that just because a person is a youth pastor that he or she is willing to be risky, creative or try new things. i’ve met more than my fair share of youth pastors that are only interested in the status quo.

good post!

]]> By: jeremy zach http://mattcleaver.com/2009/05/22/the-positive-side-of-the-one-eared-mickey-mouse/#comment-9342 jeremy zach Fri, 22 May 2009 17:09:38 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2009/05/22/the-positive-side-of-the-one-eared-mickey-mouse/#comment-9342 adam. you are not smoking crack. i think YM needs to be paving the way for how eccelsiology needs to be orchestrated. what if YM was radically different than what BIG CHURCH was doing? would the youth pastor still have a job? before youth ministry becomes the lab, we need more yp willing to abandoned their models/theology/tradition/paycheck. if we want change, we (yp) have to give up complete control, which means our future is completely unpredictable. the ability to change means you love the means and don't focus on the end. to lead the change within youth ministry we need to start creating problems. we need to allow people to see the difficulties youth ministry is facing. we are not only called to be changed and to embrace change but to be the catalysts of change. change is about creating the future, not controlling it. adam. you are not smoking crack. i think YM needs to be paving the way for how eccelsiology needs to be orchestrated. what if YM was radically different than what BIG CHURCH was doing? would the youth pastor still have a job?

before youth ministry becomes the lab, we need more yp willing to abandoned their models/theology/tradition/paycheck.

if we want change, we (yp) have to give up complete control, which means our future is completely unpredictable.

the ability to change means you love the means and don’t focus on the end. to lead the change within youth ministry we need to start creating problems. we need to allow people to see the difficulties youth ministry is facing.

we are not only called to be changed and to embrace change but to be the catalysts of change. change is about creating the future, not controlling it.

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