Comments on: Examining Dare 2 Share’s Deep and Wide Youth Ministry Thesis: Part 1 http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/ theology. youth ministry. life. join the conversation. Tue, 07 Oct 2008 14:13:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Matt http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/#comment-3633 Matt Fri, 16 May 2008 12:28:18 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/#comment-3633 @Jeremy: I understand that not everything will (or can?) be open source, but I don't think it is reasonable to commodify everything. @Jeremy: I understand that not everything will (or can?) be open source, but I don’t think it is reasonable to commodify everything.

]]> By: jeremy z http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/#comment-3626 jeremy z Fri, 16 May 2008 05:15:30 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/#comment-3626 i go back and forth about the open source issue. free stuff is great but what about the author or tour speaker who has 80k in student loan debt because he/she spent the last 6 years thinking and reflecting through his/her newest ideas within evangelicalism? i will need to take a closer look at your 34 page documentation, but at the surface level i have no problems with your theology and methodology in which you are arguing for. i go back and forth about the open source issue. free stuff is great but what about the author or tour speaker who has 80k in student loan debt because he/she spent the last 6 years thinking and reflecting through his/her newest ideas within evangelicalism?

i will need to take a closer look at your 34 page documentation, but at the surface level i have no problems with your theology and methodology in which you are arguing for.

]]> By: Brit http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/#comment-3575 Brit Wed, 14 May 2008 18:46:29 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/#comment-3575 hahaha you're so snarky Matt :) well I completly agree with the dichotomy conversation and in my past experience with churches they do create a divide. I think in Tim's defence, and apologies if I'm putting words in your mouth, but you use words like produce and goal which...are very secular in contrast and the very thing I think your speaking against Matt. The problem is, as I was thinking, how do we get away from using these kinds of terms? Can we even break from them? I become very enraged with talks of production line style ministry...follow these steps and your students will turn out like this. IN THE MOST SARCASTIC BUT HONEST TONE I really long for when Christian Smith and George Barna team up with Chap Clark and Kara Powell and pole this generation 5-10 years from now to see how much all these programs and propaganda were a complete farce....ok I digress. I think I understand your Foundationalism argument but I can understand where most denoms and ministries fall into that. we 'use' scripture to be the be all for the Kingdom, just look at any statement of Faith, Scripture comes before even the One who breathed it...reason being...we feel we can't have knowledge of God and His love and Kingdom with out the book, so the book becomes an...apologetic :-) I'm going to get crucified for that I'm thinking!!! but again I think this falls into that same realm of something the church has created into a dichotomy which it shouldn't be...but that for another post I would say. anyways....speaking of hero's...i'm thinking about starting a new series of blogs titled What would Jesus.....write, read, listen to, eat, wear...more for satirical purposes hahaha you’re so snarky Matt :)
well I completly agree with the dichotomy conversation and in my past experience with churches they do create a divide.
I think in Tim’s defence, and apologies if I’m putting words in your mouth, but you use words like produce and goal which…are very secular in contrast and the very thing I think your speaking against Matt. The problem is, as I was thinking, how do we get away from using these kinds of terms? Can we even break from them? I become very enraged with talks of production line style ministry…follow these steps and your students will turn out like this. IN THE MOST SARCASTIC BUT HONEST TONE I really long for when Christian Smith and George Barna team up with Chap Clark and Kara Powell and pole this generation 5-10 years from now to see how much all these programs and propaganda were a complete farce….ok I digress.
I think I understand your Foundationalism argument but I can understand where most denoms and ministries fall into that. we ‘use’ scripture to be the be all for the Kingdom, just look at any statement of Faith, Scripture comes before even the One who breathed it…reason being…we feel we can’t have knowledge of God and His love and Kingdom with out the book, so the book becomes an…apologetic :-) I’m going to get crucified for that I’m thinking!!! but again I think this falls into that same realm of something the church has created into a dichotomy which it shouldn’t be…but that for another post I would say. anyways….speaking of hero’s…i’m thinking about starting a new series of blogs titled What would Jesus…..write, read, listen to, eat, wear…more for satirical purposes

]]> By: Matt http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/#comment-3574 Matt Wed, 14 May 2008 18:20:29 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/#comment-3574 @Tim - fair enough. PS - My personal hero is Jesus (sorry, I couldn't resist). Although my to-read stack is taller than I am, I'll see if the Ryrie book looks interesting enough to add it to the stack. @Tim - fair enough.

PS - My personal hero is Jesus (sorry, I couldn’t resist). Although my to-read stack is taller than I am, I’ll see if the Ryrie book looks interesting enough to add it to the stack.

]]> By: Tim Schmoyer http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/#comment-3573 Tim Schmoyer Wed, 14 May 2008 17:33:53 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/#comment-3573 Dude, I appreciate your openness and willingness to be critiqued. That shows a lot of maturity. I think I'll decline the offer, though, because my time today needs to be dedicated to other matters. Besides, Christians spend way too much time arguing about theology anyway when there's a lost world that needs to hear the Word! I'd recommend a book by my personal hero, Charles Ryrie, called, <em>So Great Salvation.</em> Dude, I appreciate your openness and willingness to be critiqued. That shows a lot of maturity. I think I’ll decline the offer, though, because my time today needs to be dedicated to other matters. Besides, Christians spend way too much time arguing about theology anyway when there’s a lost world that needs to hear the Word! I’d recommend a book by my personal hero, Charles Ryrie, called, So Great Salvation.

]]> By: Matt http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/#comment-3572 Matt Wed, 14 May 2008 17:16:45 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/#comment-3572 @Tim - Point away! I consider pretty much everything an exercise in theology, so pointing out where I don't make sense, misspoke, am unclear, contradictory, etc. only helps me to either better articulate what I'm trying to say or to refine my own thinking and practice (because, well, I could be wrong). I'd love to hear your thoughts if you've got the time to share them. @Sadie - I think your thinking is wrong. I'll see if D2S would be interested in giving out free Jesus coffee cups to people who read my blog. @Tim - Point away! I consider pretty much everything an exercise in theology, so pointing out where I don’t make sense, misspoke, am unclear, contradictory, etc. only helps me to either better articulate what I’m trying to say or to refine my own thinking and practice (because, well, I could be wrong). I’d love to hear your thoughts if you’ve got the time to share them.

@Sadie - I think your thinking is wrong. I’ll see if D2S would be interested in giving out free Jesus coffee cups to people who read my blog.

]]> By: Sadie http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/#comment-3571 Sadie Wed, 14 May 2008 16:57:28 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/#comment-3571 Well! Matt you are kind of famous I think. All these fancy people commenting on your blog. I just want to know where I can get some Jesus Coffee cups. Well! Matt you are kind of famous I think. All these fancy people commenting on your blog.
I just want to know where I can get some Jesus Coffee cups.

]]> By: Tim Schmoyer http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/#comment-3570 Tim Schmoyer Wed, 14 May 2008 15:53:24 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2008/05/14/examining-dare-2-share%e2%80%99s-deep-and-wide-youth-ministry-thesis-part-1/#comment-3570 Your theology is definitely different from mine and D2S's. I'd point out some of the false dichotomy of your own here that really makes me scratch my head, but that's not the point of the series. I just appreciate your willingness to open the discussion, even if we agree to disagree. Your theology is definitely different from mine and D2S’s. I’d point out some of the false dichotomy of your own here that really makes me scratch my head, but that’s not the point of the series. I just appreciate your willingness to open the discussion, even if we agree to disagree.

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