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	<title>Comments on: Mission Trips Suck</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/</link>
	<description>theology. youth ministry. life. join the conversation.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: brit Windel</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-461</link>
		<dc:creator>brit Windel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 03:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-461</guid>
		<description>We have been graced with John Perkins (Worked along side Martin Luther King, and has been working to racial reconciliation for about 50 some odd years) at Chapel today and i got to spend some time with him talking about a comment he made in chapel. 
We have No Theology of Engagement he said...'We sit in church for an hour- two hours but yet we have a disconnect of any responsibility towards our community and world"...
this idea that we feel we have no connection to our part of community not only to our church and community but the greater world community...
and something that cory added about Chap Clark is that this idea of giving/serving becomes a Prosperity of Nothingness (we try to engage and save only the soul/spirit God COMMANDS THE SALVATION OF THE WHOLE) willing to shake the hand of the person with the outstretched hand but not willing to put any money or food in that hand while using the other hand to work along side that brother or sister...

there is a great work of reconstructing this part of the kingdom but the time is now and we are moving towards a time when we want to start seeing solutions and not just diagnosis of whats wrong</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have been graced with John Perkins (Worked along side Martin Luther King, and has been working to racial reconciliation for about 50 some odd years) at Chapel today and i got to spend some time with him talking about a comment he made in chapel.<br />
We have No Theology of Engagement he said&#8230;&#8217;We sit in church for an hour- two hours but yet we have a disconnect of any responsibility towards our community and world&#8221;&#8230;<br />
this idea that we feel we have no connection to our part of community not only to our church and community but the greater world community&#8230;<br />
and something that cory added about Chap Clark is that this idea of giving/serving becomes a Prosperity of Nothingness (we try to engage and save only the soul/spirit God COMMANDS THE SALVATION OF THE WHOLE) willing to shake the hand of the person with the outstretched hand but not willing to put any money or food in that hand while using the other hand to work along side that brother or sister&#8230;</p>
<p>there is a great work of reconstructing this part of the kingdom but the time is now and we are moving towards a time when we want to start seeing solutions and not just diagnosis of whats wrong</p>
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		<title>By: MattCleaver.com &#187; More on &#8220;Mission Trips&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-457</link>
		<dc:creator>MattCleaver.com &#187; More on &#8220;Mission Trips&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 05:44:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-457</guid>
		<description>[...] last post created a decent amount of discussion. Essentially, my question was, What might be a more [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] last post created a decent amount of discussion. Essentially, my question was, What might be a more [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Grahame</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-455</link>
		<dc:creator>Grahame</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 00:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-455</guid>
		<description>Hello Matt. Greetings from the UK. Thought provoking post. I thought I'd comment from the other side of the pond as we get quite a few of your fellow youth workers and groups over in Europe every summer :-) Oh, what a blessing :-)

I think the point about establishing ongoing relationships is a very positve one. Return visits help build community and hopefully contribute to something of lasting value to the receiving church or town. Although I agree with the point Jake makes, if that's not possible, returning and building on what's gone before does go a long way towards helping young people understand the culture and context. If connections can be maintained throughout the year, the 'mission experience' unpacked and built upon back home, then understanding will deepen. 

I also think its really important that leaders think beyond the benefits to their own group and ask the question, 'What real diffence can we make here?', whether its a compassion or evangleism (or both) driven opportunity. OK, the trip is an investment in your young people, but I wonder if it should also be a wider kingdom investment too?

I agree with all the comments that 'mission trip' is not a good label and I guess the term has been devalued by a few who equate to it to 'mission holiday'. I wish I had a simple answer, but I dont! Perhaps thinking more along the lines of 'engaging in mission' with the emphasis on 'mission' rather than the 'trip'. 

Matt, I think you're on the right lines with thoughts of a local mission 'experience'. Your next mission opportunity might be just across town. OK, I know it doesn't headline as well as going to Europe or Mexico but I wonder if its provides a better context for continuity,ongoing relationships, immersion and learning. 

Thanks for your thoughts and the opportunity to throw a few back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Matt. Greetings from the UK. Thought provoking post. I thought I&#8217;d comment from the other side of the pond as we get quite a few of your fellow youth workers and groups over in Europe every summer <img src='http://mattcleaver.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> Oh, what a blessing <img src='http://mattcleaver.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I think the point about establishing ongoing relationships is a very positve one. Return visits help build community and hopefully contribute to something of lasting value to the receiving church or town. Although I agree with the point Jake makes, if that&#8217;s not possible, returning and building on what&#8217;s gone before does go a long way towards helping young people understand the culture and context. If connections can be maintained throughout the year, the &#8216;mission experience&#8217; unpacked and built upon back home, then understanding will deepen. </p>
<p>I also think its really important that leaders think beyond the benefits to their own group and ask the question, &#8216;What real diffence can we make here?&#8217;, whether its a compassion or evangleism (or both) driven opportunity. OK, the trip is an investment in your young people, but I wonder if it should also be a wider kingdom investment too?</p>
<p>I agree with all the comments that &#8216;mission trip&#8217; is not a good label and I guess the term has been devalued by a few who equate to it to &#8216;mission holiday&#8217;. I wish I had a simple answer, but I dont! Perhaps thinking more along the lines of &#8216;engaging in mission&#8217; with the emphasis on &#8216;mission&#8217; rather than the &#8216;trip&#8217;. </p>
<p>Matt, I think you&#8217;re on the right lines with thoughts of a local mission &#8216;experience&#8217;. Your next mission opportunity might be just across town. OK, I know it doesn&#8217;t headline as well as going to Europe or Mexico but I wonder if its provides a better context for continuity,ongoing relationships, immersion and learning. </p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughts and the opportunity to throw a few back.</p>
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		<title>By: Rethinking &#8220;Mission Trips&#8221; &#171; Reaching New Heights</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-452</link>
		<dc:creator>Rethinking &#8220;Mission Trips&#8221; &#171; Reaching New Heights</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 03:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-452</guid>
		<description>[...] 18, 2008 by Cory    Matt Cleaver started an interesting discussion about the validity of youth mission trips.  Most trips involve [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 18, 2008 by Cory    Matt Cleaver started an interesting discussion about the validity of youth mission trips.  Most trips involve [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cory</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-451</link>
		<dc:creator>Cory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 02:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-451</guid>
		<description>I think Jake's comments about being immersed in a culture for an extended period time give even greater credence to engaging our groups in local mission experiences rather than paying thousands of dollars to travel abroad.  While experiences in other cultures can be of great value, I think the general consensus is that "one and done" types of mission experiences do little bring about lasting change in those cultures.

Sadie, I listened to a recording of Chap Clark from the 2007 National Youth Workers Convention in St. Louis.  He was speaking about the difference between service and justice (the gyst of his new book).  The point he was making was that there's a difference between acts of service and acts of justice.  One quote that really stuck with me was this: "Service dehumanizes those who receive it.  Justice restores human dignity so that both the giver and the receiver become one."  It seems to me that we need to rethink the whole "mission trip" idea so that our goal is justice rather than service.  It seems to be a more wholistic approach that lends itself to lasting change rather than "one and done" types of experiences which seem to have a greater impact on our students rather than those we go to serve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Jake&#8217;s comments about being immersed in a culture for an extended period time give even greater credence to engaging our groups in local mission experiences rather than paying thousands of dollars to travel abroad.  While experiences in other cultures can be of great value, I think the general consensus is that &#8220;one and done&#8221; types of mission experiences do little bring about lasting change in those cultures.</p>
<p>Sadie, I listened to a recording of Chap Clark from the 2007 National Youth Workers Convention in St. Louis.  He was speaking about the difference between service and justice (the gyst of his new book).  The point he was making was that there&#8217;s a difference between acts of service and acts of justice.  One quote that really stuck with me was this: &#8220;Service dehumanizes those who receive it.  Justice restores human dignity so that both the giver and the receiver become one.&#8221;  It seems to me that we need to rethink the whole &#8220;mission trip&#8221; idea so that our goal is justice rather than service.  It seems to be a more wholistic approach that lends itself to lasting change rather than &#8220;one and done&#8221; types of experiences which seem to have a greater impact on our students rather than those we go to serve.</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-449</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 04:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-449</guid>
		<description>Welcome back to the blogging world. Now i have to go read all 100 blogs you've done over the last week or so. You've been a busy man. I miss you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome back to the blogging world. Now i have to go read all 100 blogs you&#8217;ve done over the last week or so. You&#8217;ve been a busy man. I miss you!</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-446</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-446</guid>
		<description>It's okay, Sadie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s okay, Sadie.</p>
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		<title>By: Sadie</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-445</link>
		<dc:creator>Sadie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-445</guid>
		<description>Holy smokes there were alot of typos in that last comment of mine. Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holy smokes there were alot of typos in that last comment of mine. Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-444</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 03:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-444</guid>
		<description>Sadie, I hear you. I've toyed with the idea of doing a completely local mission trip.  If we could rise $500-ish a person like we normally do, we could do some sweet stuff.

Jake, I hear you. The thing that strikes me is that when we begin to approach missions in a way that you articulate it also forces us to completely rethink so many other things we do. It requires a complete ecclesiological overhaul.  What we think of and expect out of church would have to change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadie, I hear you. I&#8217;ve toyed with the idea of doing a completely local mission trip.  If we could rise $500-ish a person like we normally do, we could do some sweet stuff.</p>
<p>Jake, I hear you. The thing that strikes me is that when we begin to approach missions in a way that you articulate it also forces us to completely rethink so many other things we do. It requires a complete ecclesiological overhaul.  What we think of and expect out of church would have to change.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake Belder</title>
		<link>http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-443</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake Belder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattcleaver.com/2008/01/15/mission-trips-suck/#comment-443</guid>
		<description>Sinful or not, it caught my attention :)

I remember reading an article in a magazine probably last year that talked about this sort of thing.  I think you're right with the idea of renaming it...nomenclature has a big influence in how we perceive something.  I remember the author of the article saying that to be in a different culture for a week is not sufficient.  You need to be there for a time (he suggested three months) in which you start to develop real relationships with people, you get physically sick (if it's a more third-world location), you get homesick, and you see the real ups and downs of mission activity.  That's when you get a real taste of it.  Otherwise the tendency is to return back after a week with a tan and a "spiritual high", when you really haven't learned all that much.

It's food for thought, I think.  It was for me.  It may be a little excessive, but is a definite step towards breaking away from the detached nature of mission trips that you talk about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sinful or not, it caught my attention <img src='http://mattcleaver.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I remember reading an article in a magazine probably last year that talked about this sort of thing.  I think you&#8217;re right with the idea of renaming it&#8230;nomenclature has a big influence in how we perceive something.  I remember the author of the article saying that to be in a different culture for a week is not sufficient.  You need to be there for a time (he suggested three months) in which you start to develop real relationships with people, you get physically sick (if it&#8217;s a more third-world location), you get homesick, and you see the real ups and downs of mission activity.  That&#8217;s when you get a real taste of it.  Otherwise the tendency is to return back after a week with a tan and a &#8220;spiritual high&#8221;, when you really haven&#8217;t learned all that much.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s food for thought, I think.  It was for me.  It may be a little excessive, but is a definite step towards breaking away from the detached nature of mission trips that you talk about.</p>
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