Comments on: One of Those Days http://mattcleaver.com/2007/11/26/one-of-those-days/ theology. youth ministry. life. join the conversation. Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:11:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Noah http://mattcleaver.com/2007/11/26/one-of-those-days/#comment-384 Noah Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:58:18 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2007/11/26/one-of-those-days/#comment-384 preach dr. C! preach dr. C!

]]> By: Dr. C. http://mattcleaver.com/2007/11/26/one-of-those-days/#comment-371 Dr. C. Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:48:45 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2007/11/26/one-of-those-days/#comment-371 Matt, the ONLY question to ask concerning worship--okay maybe not the only, but the first one that matters the most--is "WAS GOD PLEASED?". If you are planning a service of worship (or a series of chapel services that are supposed to be worship, Robby) to rightly honor and please the Triune God, it should take a good amount of time, considerable prayer, solid commitment, and be soley focused on the character and pleasure of God. If worship is designed for congregational pleasure, discipling a youth group, keeping any sort of crowd engaged--then it is bound to disappoint and be very, very tiring and feel very unrewarding. Look at the dynamic of I Corinthians 15--after this great crescendo concerning the victory of the resurrection, Paul puts his feet on the ground and simply ends, "Therefore, my beloved, be steadfast, immovable, always excelling in hte work of the Lord, because you know that IN THE LORD your labor is not in vain." It's hard to be steadfast and immovable if you have your eyes fixed on the mission or the harvest. No, in our work, we have to keep our eyes fixed on Jesus, our hearts set on the pleasure and will of the Triune God, our egos surrendered to the Spirit. Note too, that Paul calls this cranky, awful, full-of sin and teenagers Corinthian church "my beloved"--they didn't even like Paul or esteem his ministry! How can he love them? Because, his eyes didn't look to them for validation or the right and satisfying response. He looked at Jesus and with His voice and heart called them beloved. Now, I could be discouraged if I thought you and Robby and Brit had forgotten all this that I've tried to teach you along the way---but I will pray to be steadfast and immovable and keep on keeping on because I see Jesus in each of you, stirring your dissatisfaction with ministry and the work of the kingdom to redirect your hearts, refocus your vision, reignite your love and remind you that it's not about you. It's not about "them". It's all about God. Bless you, bless you, bless you-- Dr.C. Matt, the ONLY question to ask concerning worship–okay maybe not the only, but the first one that matters the most–is “WAS GOD PLEASED?”. If you are planning a service of worship (or a series of chapel services that are supposed to be worship, Robby) to rightly honor and please the Triune God, it should take a good amount of time, considerable prayer, solid commitment, and be soley focused on the character and pleasure of God. If worship is designed for congregational pleasure, discipling a youth group, keeping any sort of crowd engaged–then it is bound to disappoint and be very, very tiring and feel very unrewarding. Look at the dynamic of I Corinthians 15–after this great crescendo concerning the victory of the resurrection, Paul puts his feet on the ground and simply ends, “Therefore, my beloved, be steadfast, immovable, always excelling in hte work of the Lord, because you know that IN THE LORD your labor is not in vain.” It’s hard to be steadfast and immovable if you have your eyes fixed on the mission or the harvest. No, in our work, we have to keep our eyes fixed on Jesus, our hearts set on the pleasure and will of the Triune God, our egos surrendered to the Spirit. Note too, that Paul calls this cranky, awful, full-of sin and teenagers Corinthian church “my beloved”–they didn’t even like Paul or esteem his ministry! How can he love them? Because, his eyes didn’t look to them for validation or the right and satisfying response. He looked at Jesus and with His voice and heart called them beloved. Now, I could be discouraged if I thought you and Robby and Brit had forgotten all this that I’ve tried to teach you along the way—but I will pray to be steadfast and immovable and keep on keeping on because I see Jesus in each of you, stirring your dissatisfaction with ministry and the work of the kingdom to redirect your hearts, refocus your vision, reignite your love and remind you that it’s not about you. It’s not about “them”. It’s all about God. Bless you, bless you, bless you– Dr.C.

]]> By: Matt http://mattcleaver.com/2007/11/26/one-of-those-days/#comment-368 Matt Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:55:07 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2007/11/26/one-of-those-days/#comment-368 Thanks for the replies. Thanks for the replies.

]]> By: Robby Davis http://mattcleaver.com/2007/11/26/one-of-those-days/#comment-367 Robby Davis Wed, 28 Nov 2007 01:49:02 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2007/11/26/one-of-those-days/#comment-367 I can definitely relate to your frustration. Part of my responsibility at Metro is planning a weekly chapel service for the Middle School students (a monthly service sounds quite nice). I have began to struggle with the feeling that we are doing chapel just for the sake of doing chapel. Is it only because we are a Christian school and that is what is expected of a Christian school, or is there a deeper purpose? Students are usually pretty involved in chapel, which is good I think except for it often creates a performance tone rather than a more worshipful tone. I remember Dr. C talking about how it's great to have kids in worship, but that we should not clap for them treating them as though it's a performance. I don't necessarialy blame parents for wanting to clap when their kid is involved in a worship service, because a lot of our worship has been reduced to being about performance anyways. I understand that your services can be frustrating when you feel as though the people that are there are there to "watch" their kids rather than worship with their kids. I don't know if I have given you any encouragement other than reassuring you that you are not alone in these struggles. The last thing I would remind you is that our God is a God who takes our broken offerings and does something powerful through them. While you do not know if the services are great and worth the time, I can't help but believe that God still uses them for the advancement of his kingdom. I trust that he will continue to guide you in your ministry. I can definitely relate to your frustration. Part of my responsibility at Metro is planning a weekly chapel service for the Middle School students (a monthly service sounds quite nice). I have began to struggle with the feeling that we are doing chapel just for the sake of doing chapel. Is it only because we are a Christian school and that is what is expected of a Christian school, or is there a deeper purpose?

Students are usually pretty involved in chapel, which is good I think except for it often creates a performance tone rather than a more worshipful tone. I remember Dr. C talking about how it’s great to have kids in worship, but that we should not clap for them treating them as though it’s a performance. I don’t necessarialy blame parents for wanting to clap when their kid is involved in a worship service, because a lot of our worship has been reduced to being about performance anyways.

I understand that your services can be frustrating when you feel as though the people that are there are there to “watch” their kids rather than worship with their kids. I don’t know if I have given you any encouragement other than reassuring you that you are not alone in these struggles. The last thing I would remind you is that our God is a God who takes our broken offerings and does something powerful through them. While you do not know if the services are great and worth the time, I can’t help but believe that God still uses them for the advancement of his kingdom. I trust that he will continue to guide you in your ministry.

]]> By: Brit Windel http://mattcleaver.com/2007/11/26/one-of-those-days/#comment-366 Brit Windel Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:17:36 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2007/11/26/one-of-those-days/#comment-366 i would agree with the above comment. if you asked me three weeks ago has this year been waisted in ministry of me trying to do thing...i would have ignorantly said yes i blew it....after the fast and just reflecting God has blessed me by revealing several blessings. the thing that is so hard with organized business ministry (church) is we fall into the product line of making things and being able to have a return for them...ie is my message writen well enough to captivate the thoughts....is the music upbeat enough to attract kids (and what about down beat enough to attract the older adults). as i spoke on last night to 60 teenage girls ( a ministry i help out with on monday nights) i talked about why i came...and what i actually did. what i have learned is telling my life story and inviting kids and parents along to tell their stories as well...i know its that new age crap thinking but but i have really become disenchanted with the way we 'do' church. when will we change the 'do' to how we 'are' church? i think being flexable and fluid in ministry is the only way to survive and if there is something better you can be spending your time doing to encourage these students then by all means do it. you are paid to create and teach...look at it as a blank slate and change when change is needed...scrap with things need to be scrapped.. but as with any artwork..you don't always have to throw the whole thing away.... ok enough metaphors. don't become one of those youth pastors that gets pissed because numbers and response didn't Measure up to something you wanted. i think you are right to say that preparation does play a part and poor prep can result in a poor performance...but again is it really about the performance i would agree with the above comment. if you asked me three weeks ago has this year been waisted in ministry of me trying to do thing…i would have ignorantly said yes i blew it….after the fast and just reflecting God has blessed me by revealing several blessings. the thing that is so hard with organized business ministry (church) is we fall into the product line of making things and being able to have a return for them…ie is my message writen well enough to captivate the thoughts….is the music upbeat enough to attract kids (and what about down beat enough to attract the older adults).
as i spoke on last night to 60 teenage girls ( a ministry i help out with on monday nights) i talked about why i came…and what i actually did. what i have learned is telling my life story and inviting kids and parents along to tell their stories as well…i know its that new age crap thinking but but i have really become disenchanted with the way we ‘do’ church. when will we change the ‘do’ to how we ‘are’ church? i think being flexable and fluid in ministry is the only way to survive and if there is something better you can be spending your time doing to encourage these students then by all means do it. you are paid to create and teach…look at it as a blank slate and change when change is needed…scrap with things need to be scrapped.. but as with any artwork..you don’t always have to throw the whole thing away….
ok enough metaphors. don’t become one of those youth pastors that gets pissed because numbers and response didn’t Measure up to something you wanted.
i think you are right to say that preparation does play a part and poor prep can result in a poor performance…but again is it really about the performance

]]> By: whisperedsweet http://mattcleaver.com/2007/11/26/one-of-those-days/#comment-365 whisperedsweet Tue, 27 Nov 2007 04:48:37 +0000 http://mattcleaver.com/2007/11/26/one-of-those-days/#comment-365 You know, in spite of when *you* might think thngs are going not so well and wonder if things are worth it--you never know that something you've said has helped another. So it's always worth it! I am sure you are helping to bless peoples lives without realizing just how *much* good you are doing! You know, in spite of when *you* might think thngs are going not so well and wonder if things are worth it–you never know that something you’ve said has helped another. So it’s always worth it! I am sure you are helping to bless peoples lives without realizing just how *much* good you are doing!

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